me
You know what I think when a western martial arts related film and animation is set in a snow covered setting? I think, "Oh boy, there is going to be some allegory related to Tibet" - and this constant reference and inflation of some of the worst orientalism...
...I have to say, the fidelity to the martial arts movement sequences are incredible
V
Yeah, it's a good show, but your commentary on it is terrible.
me
Haha
V
There are references but they aren't dogwhistles, and they don't fit into any consistent or substantive or meaningful narrative.
Aang's son in the new series is named Tenzin and his monk tutor is named Gyatso, but this doesn't really mean anything, since the Fire Nation is so over-the-top Japanese. They are so aggressively Japanese: visually, culturally, symbolically, linguistically... I mean, the derive their power from the rising sun? They are ruled as a feudal empire? Their names are orthographically almost Japanese: Azula, Sozen, Ozai, Iro...
More substantively: There is no modern narrative of an expansionist China. China is a brutal dictatorship, but it's not expansionist outside its borders. It is happy to brutalise its own people. The Fire Nation is a WW2 Japan, a conquering nation.
Also, the Fire Nation is all about technology. Every scene showing the Fire Nation war machine is about these brutal technological constructions. Their air ships, the giant drill, &c. This is very, very Japanese and not very Chinese. Also, the obsession with warrior honour...
The Fire Nation is an imperial, expansionist, technological terror. This just isn't modern China and it really, really is WW2 Japan.
Your other complaint is this throwaway mainland line, except Chin the Conquerer is from the earth nation. It's just a throwaway line—Kiyoshi Island has no other consistent Taiwan narrative. It just happens to be an island, though. Chin the Conquerer is, most likely, 秦始皇, anyway, which, again, isn't modern China. And the Kiyoshi Warriors are the counterpart in the series to the Dai Li, and neither of these fit into any consistent Japanese/Modern China/Modern Taiwan narrative.
me
Well, the Dai Li is reference to CKS' secret police. The Earth nation is very much turn of century feudal Chinese in its portrayal of decadence and corruption. The Earth nation Emperor harks back to the Last Emperor visually, and Bas Sing Se reference to the Forbidden City and its secrecy.
V
But it's not about Modern China and Tibet. The only real criticism is the very weak and very broad one. The Air Nomads aren't really Tibet, but they do reference Tibetan and Mongolian cultures.
It fits into a much broader (and almost clasical Chinese kung fu) narrative trope about peaceful monks under threat from a war obsessed dominant culture. But this is itself a martial arts drama stereotype. So many Shaw Brothers movies have this same plot.
My main point is really that there is no substantive or consistent allegory at work. There are flashes of familiarity, but they don't build up into anything that really means anything as allegory. Which is, in part, why I like the show.
It's an original, oriental fantasy kingdom. It draws a lot from fun, classic martial arts tropes. And I think many of what you're seeing as allegory—Kiyoshi and Chin the Conquerer, Fire Nation and the Air Nomads—are really just martial arts tropes that are extremely common in just Shaw Brothers movies from the past fifty years.
And the Fire Nation isn't even evil. The story of Roku and Sozen makes this point very explicitly. That it's Ozai and Azula who are evil (but really just mad) and that the Fire Nation is a proud nation led astray by its ambition and delusions of Manifest Destiny. Notice how very Japanese the treatment of Ozai is in the classroom scenes. He's not Uncle Ozai, he is the god-Emperor.
One nice thing about the show, other than it avoids a bunch of lame fantasy tropes (exchanging them for somewhat fresher martial arts movie tropes,) is that it avoids a lot of essentialism. It's not Elves are this way and Dwarves at that way. It tries to be a bit fairer and a bit less insistent on assigning character traits based on racial and national origin.
Or, at least, it is possible that when these are assigned, they are a product of culture rather than something essential. But I don't think this show has any meaning in a modern political discussion.
Besides, it is aimed at ABCs. You might say that it has the same assumptions of popular martial arts drama. And it has a lot of assumptions of classical China.
I really liked how they took care of Ozai. I thought that was really great. How Aang receives the advice of all past avatars, but stands by his conviction. I thought that was a very nice conflict for a show like this. And it was executed with such earnestness and sincerity. And all the counterpoints that the other avatars give—really nice content there, too.
One thing I cannot decide, however, is how Chinese the plot really is. Lots of pieces of it are reminiscent of classic martial arts drama, but a lot of it is very Indian.
Like this central philosophical quandry is very classically Indian, I feel. And also little bits and pieces of the adventure story.
Not just, like, the Guru. But the mix of philosophy and adventure story. Though these may not be exclusively Indian. I think also the epic feel - I don't know that I associate the epicness of a story like this with Chinese martial arts drama.
Also, the focus on close family bonds built on love and respect, and not Confucian respect. I don't know how much familial or melodramatic romantic love fit into martial arts drama. My recollection is that it's mostly Confucian, brotherly, or highly symbolic love.
I really liked the imprisoned Iro subplot. How he pretends to be a crazy old man.
me
Yes, we know you like to pretend to be poor
V
But really. Like he is doing these one handed push-ups, and the guard comes in, and he's just clapping at the air like a madman. I get the impression that this hiding of power is a very Indian mythological trope.
Like, there is this warlord who is so successful that he conquers the entire world and the heavens. And, while celebrating his victory, he runs into a monk. This monk is this pathetic, impoverished dwarf.
The demon warlord, amused by his patheticness, offers him some land, just out of pity.
The monk, though, refuses such a generous offer, he says that he needs only three steps of land to live on. The demon warlord agrees, at which point the monk starts growing in stature. And he grows and grows until he is the size of the whole world.
With the first step, he steps on the entire planet. With the second step, he steps on all of the heavens. Seeing that the monk has covered all of existence with two of the three promised steps, he can only offer his own head for the third step.
These kind of hidden identity stories are very, very common
It's about unrecognised greatness
(The monk was an avatar of Visnu. And the daemon gets granted immortality at the end.)
me
Yes... 放下屠刀 立地成佛... these moments of instantaneous transformation
V
Yes, and this divinity that is so unadorned and natural. Detached from pride and any need for recognition.
I wonder if the new show will be good. I think it may lose something by nature of being a sequel. The original had to build popularity, so the mythology was a bit scattered and disjoint
The sequel may try to construct too detailed or too consistent a mythology, which I think is incorrect. The small scattered, disjoint bits are what give the mythology life
